Chinasmith » 18-June-2008 12:36am

Hmmm ...... bad idea to use a fake coin on the cover. The piece shown is not an amulet, its just a fake coin, made for collectors.

charm » 18-June-2008 1:17am

In my opinion, it is not a fake, but fantasy amulet made in the shape of Spade coin.

mbriac » 22-June-2008 1:22pm

I will go in Paris to see François Thierry at 7th of july, I will ask him information about this coin (???)

laocao » 22-June-2008 1:57pm

Why think it is the fake coin? This is common spade with outside rim. I believe Thierry can't use a common fake coin on the cover of book.

La Vansa » 30-June-2008 4:28pm

Dear Chinasmith, You don't know the use of monetary inscriptions on many Chinese Charms many time after the first issuing, as wuzhu, banliang, Zhou yuan tongbao, Da Guan tongbao, Tai Chang zhongbao, Deyi yuanbao, etc, etc. The cover given by Charm was only a draft, the true cover shows the reverse of this spade of Wei. See the picture provided by the National Library Publication Board.

mbriac » 9-July-2008 8:17pm

this is obverse of a charm, the right cover is with the reverse (see #59527)

mbriac » 11-July-2008 2:21am

the next book of the series will be aviable in 2010 and will be about Song dynasties.

Chinasmith » 11-July-2008 5:36am

Can anyone provide any evidence that any spade coin was ever used in a ritual or served as protection or good luck (except for the Wang Mang coins)? I've never seen any such evidence. Yes, some cash coins were used as amulets, but my opinion is that the numerous copies of ancient spade coins are simply forgeries made for collectors or tourists -- perhaps for centuries. Where is the evidence?

Tony Merson » 11-July-2008 9:35am

Dear mbriac,
The Song dynasties book will be the coins (not charms)?

Tony Merson » 11-July-2008 9:43am

There is an Exhibition opening today in Hong Kong on 'Chinese Charms: Arts, Religion and Folk Belief'.
It is in the Gallery of the City University of Hong Kong until 24 August.
A book discussing Charms is being published, mainly in Chinese and not a catalogue.
On 14-15 July there is an International Symposium on Chinese Numismatic Charms at the University.
Speakers include some well-known names, as charm will already know (hope he has finished the writing ).
I have not checked this link: http://ctl.cityu.edu.hk/iscnc

mbriac » 11-July-2008 3:14pm

Dear Tony, this book (Amulettes de Chine) is the volume 7 of the serie, the 2 first where

Monnaies de Chine I L'antiquité préimpériale (PréQin coins)
Monnaies de Chine II. Des Qin aux Cinq Dynasties (coinage from Qin to 5 dynasties)

the next book will be

Monnaies de Chine III. Les Song et Nord et les Song du Sud (coinage of the Song coins) will be write by Mr Emmanuel Poisson under authority of Mr Thierry (aviable 2010)
Monnaies de Chine IV. Des Qidan aux Ming du Sud (coinage of Tartar dynasties until South Ming) will be write by Mr thierry (aviable probably 2012)

Dear Chinasmith, I will post here informations about this charm in my next message

mbriac » 11-July-2008 4:58pm

Here are informations about the spade

obverse: Liang Zheng Dang Bai Dang Lie (regulary spade from Liang, 100 have value of 1 Lie)

Reverse: Musical teacher Juan comming under moon near bank of Pu river to listen to music played by a oxguard and a young lengthened girl which are wooing.
under: text "do not listen to the air which ruin a kingdom"

Casting time: Ming dynasty

This charm have obverse of Liang spade from Wei kingdom minted during IVe century BC, reverse is an allusion to historical alert of Shi Kuang than you can find in Hanfeizi or Shiji (Ling duc from Wei where going to see Ping duc fom Jin and make a stop near the Pu river. during the night, he did heared music and did ask to the music teacher Shi Juanth listen and translate the music.
Once he was in the Jin's court, He did explain durng the diner this history and asked to Shi Juan to play it with the music teacher of Jin Duc (Shi Kuang).
The musical air wasn't finished than Shi Kuand did say: "this is the air which ruin a kingdom, don't listen it"
Like Ping did asked where does com this air from, Kuang did explainorigin of this air which dated from Shang dynasty.
Last emperor of Shang did asked to his music teacher (Shi Yan) to make him a lascivious air. Shi Yan where going near the Pu river where man and women where goind woing and did listen music and make this air. Small time later, abandoned Zhou has his infamy and his lust where unable to resist to Wuwang attack and Shang dynasty where overthrow.



These informations are a rough translation of description made by Francois Thierry has the page 122 of the book

charm » 11-July-2008 6:43pm

Dear Tony,
Speakers include some well-known names, as charm will already know (hope he has finished the writing)

Russian text is ready and I am trying to finish the English version during my tour in China . Too many interesting sites and places, too little free time.

frank » 3-April-2014 8:49pm

for a review of the above title which contains also 72 plates in black and white
please see
Numismatic Chronicle, London, 2009,
pp. 447-451, by Helen Wang.

frank » 8-April-2014 9:50pm

a review by Helen Wang(in French)appeared in Revue Numismatique, Paris, 2010.