THIS is why you shouldn't pinch junipers!

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
I think wiring is the most tedious thing done in bonsai but one of the most important. I remember wireing up my large spruce last fall and it took around 6-7 hours total. Starts out fun then after and couple hours your fingers turn sappy and discolored and needing a good beer lol.

This guy has glory ahead of it now that it's in caring hands, looking forward to more pics.
Giga, there is the phrase "Wiring is Bonsai, Bonsai is wiring".

And, yes, it's tedious. As is needle pulling. And defoliating ramified Zelkova, and... Well, you get the idea!

I once asked Owen Reich what was the first thing that struck him as different between the way we do bonsai here in the USA, and the way they do it in Japan. (Owen apprenticed in Japan). He said, "Attention to detail".
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,940
Reaction score
45,757
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
To be honest, I'm really not that big of a Juniper fan!
I used to say that too...

Though I despise procumbens and San Jose junipers, I would own a Tosho if I could get my hands on a big old gnarly import.
 

erb.75

Chumono
Messages
934
Reaction score
666
Location
Liberty Township, OH
USDA Zone
6a
I think wiring is the most tedious thing done in bonsai but one of the most important. I remember wireing up my large spruce last fall and it took around 6-7 hours total. Starts out fun then after and couple hours your fingers turn sappy and discolored and needing a good beer lol.

This guy has glory ahead of it now that it's in caring hands, looking forward to more pics.
a little beer goes a long way to fuel a bonsai artist
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
A little wiring, little trimming:

image.jpg

I worked on the lower left and lower right branches today. It opened it up so you can now see the trunk and rock from the front.

The lowest right branch goes back towards the back more than it makes a good "first branch". The foliage you see on the right front is mostly coming from the second branch on the right.

As I worked the branches, I found that the green tufts on the ends were growing in an "up/down" configuration. So, as I wired them out, I gave them a slight twist to make the little twigs be side branches. Then, I pruned off the ones still growing down. A lot of the branches are very weak, and they droop down. I'm hoping that now they'll get more sun and perk up.

I'm using a lot of 18 and 20 gauge wire. That's real small stuff for me. I usually only go down to 16 gauge on my JBPs.

I placed an order for more 16, 18, 20, and 22 gauge with Gremel.
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
Messages
14,307
Reaction score
22,116
Location
Mio Michigan
USDA Zone
4
Shouldn't this thread be called why we don't shear junipers? Pinching is a completely different technique.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Pinching has the same effect. Whether it's the "Grip and Rip", or done with finger and thumb, or by scissors, removing the growing tips is what does the damage.

The point is, the tree needs to have new growing tips untouched. If a branch gets too long, remove an entire tuft of foliage by going in with scissors and cutting off the tuft. Which leave the growing tips of the surrounding tufts untouched.

I know, I know... "Pinching" junipers has been taught for a long, long time. Mis-information. At one time everyone thought the world was flat, too.
 

johng

Omono
Messages
1,909
Reaction score
3,658
Its really kind of funny...Mr. Neil, although openly proclaiming that you should never pinch junipers, clearly reaches out and pinches some juniper foliage in the video from a recent thread....perhaps it is just dead foliage but it caught my eye nonetheless.
 

0soyoung

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,496
Reaction score
12,828
Location
Anacortes, WA (AHS heat zone 1)
USDA Zone
8b
It bears repeating
The point is, the tree needs to have new growing tips untouched. If a branch gets too long, remove an entire tuft of foliage by going in with scissors and cutting off the tuft. Which leave the growing tips of the surrounding tufts untouched.
 

Eric Group

Masterpiece
Messages
4,554
Reaction score
4,854
Location
Columbia, SC
Pinching has the same effect. Whether it's the "Grip and Rip", or done with finger and thumb, or by scissors, removing the growing tips is what does the damage.

The point is, the tree needs to have new growing tips untouched. If a branch gets too long, remove an entire tuft of foliage by going in with scissors and cutting off the tuft. Which leave the growing tips of the surrounding tufts untouched.

I know, I know... "Pinching" junipers has been taught for a long, long time. Mis-information. At one time everyone thought the world was flat, too.

Certain types of juniper produce large enough growing tips in clusters where I have found on a cluster of three, if you "pinch"/ pull out the center, largest bud, leaving two at the base of it, you do not get any of the dead tips that the "grip it and rip it" technique leaves you with. I think the type of pinching mentioned in books is not intended to refer to the extremely over used "shearing with my fingers" stuff described by you here, and BVF in his blog Articles... Seems proper technique has been kind of lost in translation a bit IMO, so it is good to clarify this point as often as possible.

Popping off a central bud from a cluster of them at the tip of a well maintained branch has never caused brown tips for me on Procumbens, Sargentii, Parsons... But with Shimpaku/ Kishu... The tips are so small you can barely even do it. And, as you said, if a branch is too long, you have to get the scissors out and remove tufts of foliage, otherwise pinching the tips on a branch that is too long would just lead to a pom pom at the end of a naked branch... Not appealing!
 

benw3790

Shohin
Messages
351
Reaction score
75
Location
western north carolina
USDA Zone
7b
I feel like you can pinch junipers with the thumb and index finger to a certain
Extent. It produces good back budding, in my experience and has never caused any stress. To make it simple, we'll say there is 100 new growing tips... pinching 10 or 12 of those wont hurt. it helps junipers to ramify and back.bud. overly pinching them and shearing them is what causes stress. I feel like you can pinch junipers as long as you dont over do it or use it as your only method of thinning.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
If you pinch in such a way as to remove a small tuft in its entirety, that's the equal event as cutting it off with scissors. It's when you pinch and leave half a needle... THATs what creates brown tips.

It's not so much what utensil is used, it's HOW it's used.

Many people think "pinch" and use their fingernails. As scissors, cutting needles. That's not good.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
I feel like you can pinch junipers with the thumb and index finger to a certain
Extent. It produces good back budding, in my experience and has never caused any stress. To make it simple, we'll say there is 100 new growing tips... pinching 10 or 12 of those wont hurt. it helps junipers to ramify and back.bud. overly pinching them and shearing them is what causes stress. I feel like you can pinch junipers as long as you dont over do it or use it as your only method of thinning.
Ben,

Want to know a technique that works better?

Let it grow. Extend a runner a couple three or four inches. THEN cut the runner off. That really stimulates back budding! You see, letting the runner grow builds up the growth hormones and stimulates root growth. Removing the runner activates the dormant buds, and they're powered by strong roots.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Here's another problem when you "pinch, pinch, pinch" (or shear, shear, shear) rather than let it grow and cut back: you get lots of weak branches all emanating from one spot:

image.jpg

Junipers like to produce alternating branches: left, right, left, right. When they're allow to grow. Repeated pinching at the same spot prevents this. Sure, they back bud, but they back bud in the crotches of branches. So, what we get is a back bud in a crotch, then another back bud at the same crotch, then another, an another... Which ends up like what you see in the photo.

What we want is two branches at each intersection. Not 10. And that intersection becomes knobby.

I'm finding this situation all over in this tree. I'm doing my best to reduce down to two branches.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Progress to date:

The front:

image.jpg

The back:

image.jpg

My efforts have been focused on getting the wire on, and thinning out those tufts. I haven't really "set" the branches. Once I get it all wired, I plan to sit back with a beer and arrange it.
 

johng

Omono
Messages
1,909
Reaction score
3,658
If you pinch in such a way as to remove a small tuft in its entirety, that's the equal event as cutting it off with scissors. It's when you pinch and leave half a needle... THATs what creates brown tips.

It's not so much what utensil is used, it's HOW it's used.

Many people think "pinch" and use their fingernails. As scissors, cutting needles. That's not good.

So its ok to pinch if you do it correctly?
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,868
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
If you remove the unwanted growth correctly, it doesn't matter what you call it! Lol!
 
Top Bottom